Germany.... a ruined but beautifull country ? 22
[gone] Caligula - Goth Photography
28.09.2005
I was browsing in the 'Bilderdiskussion' and I noticed that most of the modelling pictures are taken either in free nature or within some ruined building... it makes us foreigners wonder, where you germans actually live ;P
#1Report
28.09.2005
Für alle die Englisch nicht mächtig sind:
Deutschland .... eine wunderschönes Land im Ruine
Beim Stolpern durch den Bilderdiskussion merkte ich das die Modelle überwiegend in der freien Natur oder in irgendwelche Ruinen Fotografiert werden ... das gibt uns Ausländer zu bedenken, wo ihr Deutschen eigentlich leben ;P
Da habe ich mir schlapp gelacht, vor allem weil ich eher in einer Bruchbude Wohne *Lach*. Irgendwie hat der Caligula recht, ein Land voller wuderschöne Schlösser und Prachtvillen, und Fotografiert wird eher in ein herabgekommenen Industriegelände.
lg,
Robert
Deutschland .... eine wunderschönes Land im Ruine
Beim Stolpern durch den Bilderdiskussion merkte ich das die Modelle überwiegend in der freien Natur oder in irgendwelche Ruinen Fotografiert werden ... das gibt uns Ausländer zu bedenken, wo ihr Deutschen eigentlich leben ;P
Da habe ich mir schlapp gelacht, vor allem weil ich eher in einer Bruchbude Wohne *Lach*. Irgendwie hat der Caligula recht, ein Land voller wuderschöne Schlösser und Prachtvillen, und Fotografiert wird eher in ein herabgekommenen Industriegelände.
lg,
Robert
#2Report
28.09.2005
Reading this two reasons crossed my thoughts:
the ontopic one: Surely it's the conceptional contrast between a young, beautiful female being and the old buildings that adds to the artistic expression of the pictures. What could be more antagonistic than a adolescent blooming body surrounded by decaying remnants of human ambitions? Only a graveyard could increase this contrast.
the ontopic one, version b: beautiful parks and buildings have the disadvantage of the photographer and the model not being alone at such a place ;-) The only outcome of such a shooting would be a NIP, which is far less artistic (at least to me), while at the same time rather challenging to the model's daring.
the offtopic one: Is this really that surprising? Especially after the last election, its foregoing campaigns and accompanying demoscopic studies even foreign spectators should have got a clear insight into the German "soul". Taking art by its claim to be a mirror of the society's state of mind it's not very surprising to find this attitude even depicted here in the galleries...
Greetings,
Steffen
@Robert: Please be gentle with my linguistic mistakes...
the ontopic one: Surely it's the conceptional contrast between a young, beautiful female being and the old buildings that adds to the artistic expression of the pictures. What could be more antagonistic than a adolescent blooming body surrounded by decaying remnants of human ambitions? Only a graveyard could increase this contrast.
the ontopic one, version b: beautiful parks and buildings have the disadvantage of the photographer and the model not being alone at such a place ;-) The only outcome of such a shooting would be a NIP, which is far less artistic (at least to me), while at the same time rather challenging to the model's daring.
the offtopic one: Is this really that surprising? Especially after the last election, its foregoing campaigns and accompanying demoscopic studies even foreign spectators should have got a clear insight into the German "soul". Taking art by its claim to be a mirror of the society's state of mind it's not very surprising to find this attitude even depicted here in the galleries...
Greetings,
Steffen
@Robert: Please be gentle with my linguistic mistakes...
#3Report
[gone] Caligula - Goth Photography
28.09.2005
@Robert Kirk.... It's funny how you more or less suggest that modelphotography has to be nude : "beautiful parks and buildings have the disadvantage of the photographer and the model not being alone at such a place ;-) The only outcome of such a shooting would be a NIP," You know that it's actually possible to make beautifull pictures of dressed women to ??? *lol*
#4Report
Guest
28.09.2005
Ich mag mich ja irren,da ich noch nie in den Niederlanden war,aber kann es sein,daß auf deinen Bildern weder großartig niederländisches zu sehen ist und muß ich mir so die typische Niederländerin vorstellen???
Hübsches Model und Ruine sind Gegensätze,die gern genommen werden.Nicht nur in Deutschland.
Hübsches Model und Ruine sind Gegensätze,die gern genommen werden.Nicht nur in Deutschland.
#5Report
Guest
28.09.2005
Für alle die Englisch nicht mächtig sind:
[I]Deutschland .... eine wunderschönes Land im Ruine
so wie du es schreibst Robert ist es die deutsche Realität und wie Caligula auf Gebäude bezogen!Da hast du etwas nicht wörtlich rübergebracht (er meinte ja schließlich Gebäuderuinen)
Deine Version ist die wie wir in Deutschland dastehen,Löhne kürzen,entlassen,ohne richtige Regierung usw.!!
Liebe Amis auf der Welt,wir holen auf und werden euch noch schlagen in Punkto Peinlichkeiten:)))!
LG ANNE
#6Report
[gone] Joachim Reinhardt
28.09.2005
Well, I agree that it could be a problem to take nude photos in front of intact castles. Since I also like non-nude photos I found plenty of nice places to take photos...as you can see on my sedcard. :-) But I think germans like that contrast between nice girls and old buildings. Maybe some kind of morbid faszination. :-) Another reason why a lot of german photographers prefer old buildings might be that these backgrounds are considered to be more "artful".
Cheers, Joachim
Cheers, Joachim
#7Report
28.09.2005
@Robert Kirk.... It's funny how you more or less suggest that modelphotography has to be nude : "beautiful parks and buildings have the disadvantage of the photographer and the model not being alone at such a place ;-) The only outcome of such a shooting would be a NIP," You know that it's actually possible to make beautifull pictures of dressed women to ??? *lol*
@ Caligula, that was Steffen with the Nude im Public remark
so wie du es schreibst Robert ist es die deutsche Realität und wie Caligula auf Gebäude bezogen!Da hast du etwas nicht wörtlich rübergebracht (er meinte ja schließlich Gebäuderuinen)
Deine Version ist die wie wir in Deutschland dastehen,Löhne kürzen,entlassen,ohne richtige Regierung usw.!!
Liebe Amis auf der Welt,wir holen auf und werden euch noch schlagen in Punkto Peinlichkeiten:)))!
LG ANNE
@ Anne Glaube mir ich ich verstehe English ausgezeichnet, ich habe Caligulas Title sinngemäß übersetzt. Caligula sagte nicht a country of Ruins (Ruinen) er faste es viel breiter, mir viel Raum für interpretation, ganau das machtes es wesentlich denkwurdiger.
lg,
Robert
#8Report
28.09.2005
Yep, it was me with the suggestion of NIP. Classical case of a Freudian Slip, I guess. Of course you can take beautiful pictures of clothed models in beautiful, intact surroundings.
At least now everybody knows why I'm here ;-)
At least now everybody knows why I'm here ;-)
#9Report
Guest
28.09.2005
nochmals lesen robert!
er schrieb ruine building,nicht country!Du hast gesehen cdas cer ruinen schrieb warum schreibst du dann "Deutschland im Ruine"!
Da hab ich doch richtig geschrieben das du meinst Deutschland ist ruiniert(was ich auch denke) !Du hast nicht wörtlich übersetzt deutsche ruinen!
Mir ist klar das du gut verstehst,aber ich denke du hast nicht absichtlich wortgemäß übersetzt sondern das geschrieben was man über Deutschland denken muss wenn man die gegenwärtige Situation sieht!!!!!
LG ANNE
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Sorry Robert!!Sehe gerade (den Titel)wir reden aneinander vorbei!du zitierst die Überschrift und ich den TEXT!::)))
er schrieb ruine building,nicht country!Du hast gesehen cdas cer ruinen schrieb warum schreibst du dann "Deutschland im Ruine"!
Da hab ich doch richtig geschrieben das du meinst Deutschland ist ruiniert(was ich auch denke) !Du hast nicht wörtlich übersetzt deutsche ruinen!
Mir ist klar das du gut verstehst,aber ich denke du hast nicht absichtlich wortgemäß übersetzt sondern das geschrieben was man über Deutschland denken muss wenn man die gegenwärtige Situation sieht!!!!!
LG ANNE
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Sorry Robert!!Sehe gerade (den Titel)wir reden aneinander vorbei!du zitierst die Überschrift und ich den TEXT!::)))
#10Report
28.09.2005
Für alle die Englisch nicht mächtig sind:
[I]... in irgendwelche Ruinen Fotografiert werden ...
@ Anne, da sind deine Gebüden (Ruinen) lese den Title des Threads da steht was anderes.
lg,
Robert
#11Report
[gone] Caligula - Goth Photography
29.09.2005
@Robert : You're right.... mea maxima culpa and a thousand excuses ;)
#12Report
[gone] Caligula - Goth Photography
29.09.2005
@Australia : Well, I do not suggest that all women in my portfolio are the 'typical dutch woman' (as a matter of fact, most of them are not 100% dutch *lol*), but that's only the work of one photographer... when I browse model-kartei however I have the idea that the 'theme' of destroyed buildings OR beautifull nature return with almost every photographer.
@Joachim : I think you're right that the contrast beautifull woman/old destroyed building can be considered artfull... however according to me it's used so ofthen that it's becoming a cliche.... Sometimes there are nice 'surprising' variations on the theme, but in general it's a bit 'overused'..... (Just as the beautifullgirlonawallwithgraffitty' background) and most of all, most photographers do not look anymore if it's 'functional'... for example a girl in military costume in a ruin, a punk or other alternative girl in a ruin is functional, there is a relation between the suggested 'function' of the girl and the surroundings... however a girl in galadres is less functional what the hell the girl is doing there ? If the picture does not 'suggest' at least a reason why she is there, the picture doesn't do me anything.
And with regards to nudes in destroyed buildings : There are I guess at least a thousand of those pictures in MK. I think with regards to 'nude' pictures the nudity has to be functional : nudity in nature is : it suggests 'being one with nature' (as long as the model looks at ease and is not looking with her eyes if no-one sees her like in some pictures), to make nudity in ruins looks function is more difficult.
@Joachim : I think you're right that the contrast beautifull woman/old destroyed building can be considered artfull... however according to me it's used so ofthen that it's becoming a cliche.... Sometimes there are nice 'surprising' variations on the theme, but in general it's a bit 'overused'..... (Just as the beautifullgirlonawallwithgraffitty' background) and most of all, most photographers do not look anymore if it's 'functional'... for example a girl in military costume in a ruin, a punk or other alternative girl in a ruin is functional, there is a relation between the suggested 'function' of the girl and the surroundings... however a girl in galadres is less functional what the hell the girl is doing there ? If the picture does not 'suggest' at least a reason why she is there, the picture doesn't do me anything.
And with regards to nudes in destroyed buildings : There are I guess at least a thousand of those pictures in MK. I think with regards to 'nude' pictures the nudity has to be functional : nudity in nature is : it suggests 'being one with nature' (as long as the model looks at ease and is not looking with her eyes if no-one sees her like in some pictures), to make nudity in ruins looks function is more difficult.
#13Report
[gone] Caligula - Goth Photography
29.09.2005
A simple sample how the 'beautifull woman in an old building' can tell a(n in)complete story : http://www.model-kartei.de/picture-153223.html
#14Report
[gone] Udo Wilke (Shootingpause bis Mai)
29.09.2005
first thing i thought of reading your post was that eastgerman national hymn started with the words
"revived out of ruins and facing the future" ;-)) (Funny enough)
to your text: sometimes i think there are mostly 2 groups of people in germany (but sure its cliche): romantic ones (touching that very cliche: German wald, german seele, feeling with everyones feelings - (yeah i know im bad;-))) and by the other hand people whom very fear that foreigners could see them as "typical germans" (romantic, melancholic, for xample staring deeply at sunrises ;-) all that "bad" attributes etc.). but what is always interesting to me is the notice that in a lot of public discussions here a thing like trading or compromising has an touch of moral dubiety when otherwise there is a big understanding in wide parts of the society for a (xample) palestinense suicide-bomber because of the foolish thinking that its moral to die for something (nation, justice, religion etc.). simply said: i have the very suspicion, that a lot of people think, when it goes to death it goes serious and anything other looks a bit superficial to them.
in photography (not only) it means the contrast between youth and fall (death), a morbid view that is implicit erotic too (but by the way in a wide range of not only german but european arts - thinking pre-raffaelites, jugendstil etc.). this seems to look artificial to some people but the other way like entertaining only and this is truly a big sacrifice : to entertain ;-).
zo long, udo
"revived out of ruins and facing the future" ;-)) (Funny enough)
to your text: sometimes i think there are mostly 2 groups of people in germany (but sure its cliche): romantic ones (touching that very cliche: German wald, german seele, feeling with everyones feelings - (yeah i know im bad;-))) and by the other hand people whom very fear that foreigners could see them as "typical germans" (romantic, melancholic, for xample staring deeply at sunrises ;-) all that "bad" attributes etc.). but what is always interesting to me is the notice that in a lot of public discussions here a thing like trading or compromising has an touch of moral dubiety when otherwise there is a big understanding in wide parts of the society for a (xample) palestinense suicide-bomber because of the foolish thinking that its moral to die for something (nation, justice, religion etc.). simply said: i have the very suspicion, that a lot of people think, when it goes to death it goes serious and anything other looks a bit superficial to them.
in photography (not only) it means the contrast between youth and fall (death), a morbid view that is implicit erotic too (but by the way in a wide range of not only german but european arts - thinking pre-raffaelites, jugendstil etc.). this seems to look artificial to some people but the other way like entertaining only and this is truly a big sacrifice : to entertain ;-).
zo long, udo
#15Report
29.09.2005
@Caligula: I would object, at least partly. Of course everybody is free to compose his pictures according to his own liking. If the photographer wants his model to appear "functional" to the surroundings, he's free to do so. But I guess a lot of people (just like me) find this functional approach rather boring. Maybe "boring" is a rather stark word and "one-dimensional" the more appropriate description. For those people (including me) an interesting photo worthy of remembrance should convey a sense of "contrast", just a I described it in my first posting. How often do you see beautifully (sometimes strangely) dressed or even nude women lingering in woods when you take a stroll through the countryside? The contrast between a women whatsoever her appearance and a destroyed building is even more ... (ansprechend), not at least resulting from the notion that Udo has presented here: It's a morbid view that's implicitely erotic.
Greetings,
Steffen
Greetings,
Steffen
#16Report
[gone] Caligula - Goth Photography
30.09.2005
@Steffen : I think we agree more then you think. Only the 'contrast' of young beautifull women in old ugly buildings is so 'milked out', that -with a few exceptions- gets boring... the first pictures of this kind I saw (late 70's begin 80's) were interesting, but now - 20 year later- it's getting boring if there is no 'other' element drawing attention. Recently I saw a picture on MK, I do not remember by who, of a photographer who made a picture of a model in an old building, but in such a way, that the door openings in several walls were all in a row... interesting because it adds perspective. The pictures of Dirk with Sabine and Franzi also are quite interesting, because of the 'playing' with model on the foreground/model on the background.... but a single model in an old building really needs additional 'eyecatchers' to catch [i]my[/] eye.
#17Report
Guest
30.09.2005
Schade,in deutsch hätte ich mich gerne weiter unterhalten.
#18Report
30.09.2005
@ Australia, ein bisschen Hilfestellung das du zumindest bezug auf Caligulas Bemerkung an dich nehmen kannst:
@ Australia: ich würd ungern inplizieren das alle Frauen auf meine Portfolio typisch Niederländisch wären (eigentlich sind die meisten nicht 100% Niderländisch *lol*), aber meine Arbeiten sind nur die Arbeiten ein einzelner Fotograf...aber während in der MK durchsttolpere bekomme ich den Eindrück das das Motiv zerstörter Gebäuden oder wunderschönes Natur bei fast jeder neuen Fotograf zurückkehrt.
...
im Bezüg auf zerstörte Gebauden: es gibt sicherlich Tausend solcher Fotos in der MK. Im bezüg auf Nachtheit ich glaube es sollte eine Funktion haben : Naktheit in der Natur ist bzw impliziert einigkeit mit der Natur (so lange das Modell ist bequem und nicht ständig spähen muss ob jemand auf die Lauer liegt), so das Nacktheit in Ruinen richtig Funktioniert benötigt man dagegen viel mehr.
Robert
@Australia : Well, I do not suggest that all women in my portfolio are the 'typical dutch woman' (as a matter of fact, most of them are not 100% dutch *lol*), but that's only the work of one photographer... when I browse model-kartei however I have the idea that the 'theme' of destroyed buildings OR beautifull nature return with almost every photographer.
...
And with regards to nudes in destroyed buildings : There are I guess at least a thousand of those pictures in MK. I think with regards to 'nude' pictures the nudity has to be functional : nudity in nature is : it suggests 'being one with nature' (as long as the model looks at ease and is not looking with her eyes if no-one sees her like in some pictures), to make nudity in ruins looks function is more difficult.
@ Australia: ich würd ungern inplizieren das alle Frauen auf meine Portfolio typisch Niederländisch wären (eigentlich sind die meisten nicht 100% Niderländisch *lol*), aber meine Arbeiten sind nur die Arbeiten ein einzelner Fotograf...aber während in der MK durchsttolpere bekomme ich den Eindrück das das Motiv zerstörter Gebäuden oder wunderschönes Natur bei fast jeder neuen Fotograf zurückkehrt.
...
im Bezüg auf zerstörte Gebauden: es gibt sicherlich Tausend solcher Fotos in der MK. Im bezüg auf Nachtheit ich glaube es sollte eine Funktion haben : Naktheit in der Natur ist bzw impliziert einigkeit mit der Natur (so lange das Modell ist bequem und nicht ständig spähen muss ob jemand auf die Lauer liegt), so das Nacktheit in Ruinen richtig Funktioniert benötigt man dagegen viel mehr.
Robert
#19Report
Guest
02.10.2005
@ Robert
Vielen Dank.
Vielen Dank.
#20Report
Topic has been closed